Has anyone begun to comprehend this? Yeah it's supposed to only be comprehensible at LoC 998, but c'mon. xD

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I think understanding that there are no causes is kinda the same principle as taking responsibility for your own reality, no?

The effects of it are that nothing can be blamed upon any previous event, and while things might be correlated or have syncronicities, it doesn't mean they are cause and effect.

So you are stating that all things are not cause and effect? That nothing has a direct effect?

Elaina wrote:I'm not sure what you're getting at. I think understanding that there are no causes is kinda the same principle as taking responsibility for your own reality, no?

The effects of it are that nothing can be blamed upon any previous event, and while things might be correlated or have syncronicities, it doesn't mean they are cause and effect.

So you are stating that all things are not cause and effect? That nothing has a direct effect?

Nothing has a direct effect, but everything has a consequence. I think 'effect' implies that it is determined when the cause happens, like you can control the future by doing certain 'causes'.

Basically, life just goes on, things are continuous and without end. Whereas 'effect' implies a specific thing that happens, a consequence isn't a thing but a further place along the same path as the action that preceded it.

oh yeah, like if you're walking on a road, and you come to a fork, you choose one path, the path you choose isn't the effect, it's actually part of your ongoing life, and isn't a 'thing'.

Elaina wrote:oh yeah, like if you're walking on a road, and you come to a fork, you choose one path, the path you choose isn't the effect, it's actually part of your ongoing life, and isn't a 'thing'.

Yeah, I guess that's what I meant. To choose the left path is an action, and to encounter the oak tree at the end of it is a consequence. You didn't cause the oak tree to be there, it was already there. You just chose the path it was already on.

Cause and effect is valid up to 499 right?

Sanders wrote:Cause and effect is valid up to 499 right?

It's valid for explaining things til then yeah, but to 'go beyond causality' Hawkins says is an understanding in the high 990s. I suppose it means you SEE that nothing is causing anything else, whereas perhaps up to then it still looks like it to an extent.

Mike Elias wrote:

Sanders wrote:Cause and effect is valid up to 499 right?

It's valid for explaining things til then yeah, but to 'go beyond causality' Hawkins says is an understanding in the high 990s. I suppose it means you SEE that nothing is causing anything else, whereas perhaps up to then it still looks like it to an extent.

So "in the world but not of it" up until high 990s then just is-ness. Lol I can't even imagine what those high states would be like, waaay beyond my understanding and experience.

Sanders wrote:
So "in the world but not of it" up until high 990s then just is-ness.

I don't know about that, it sounds like is-ness or whatever begins in the 500s and totally dominates starting at 600. I've never really heard a description of 700+ that makes sense to me.

One of the cool things about this concept is that it implies that nothing ever needs to be worried about. If nothing is causing anything, it's impossible to predict the future, and if it's impossible to predict the future, there's always hope. It's like, since each present moment arises spontaneously, all the content of each moment is subject to the possibility of instant change. So even if the axe blade is two inches from your neck, it ain't over til it's over.

My current understanding is instead of;

Cause + Effect

it's

Effect + Effect


Cause = A creation from the mentation of the mind, 'trying' to reduce a singular explanation behind the occurrence of events.

Right, like what we experience is one effect after another, and our response to each effect chooses which effects we will experience next, and to say ''cause'' is to imply that there's something specific that forced something to happen.

I like the analogy of a flower opening, or unfolding. There is no separateness when a flower goes from folded to unfolded. Yet the mind sees two states; folded and unfolded.

The material itself (the flower) stays the same throughout, it's essence, yet the appearance of the flower changes from folded to unfolded as the petals of the flower open up.

Appearance is perception, therefore our perception of the flower changes as it opens and closes. But if we look at the essence of the flower, it is still there. Therefore the essence of the flower that is always there never changes, it is just us confusing the essence with appearance. If nothing changes, if all illusion (falsehood) is peeled away to see the essence, then you cannot say that there is cause and effect.

You cannot say there is cause and effect because there is only Is-ness (as Mike talked about in a post above).

A "this" can't cause a "that" if the "this" and "that" is part of the whole. You can say that there is a piece of cake, but the piece is part of the whole. Through perception the piece of cake sees itself separate from the whole of the cake.

Of course, we would have to surrender all perception to see that we are all pieces of the same cake. Hence why we can only talk about it now, and only partially intuit it. However, our perception peels away the more we surrender so that we see more essence, until we see all essence and no perception; this is likely to be in the high 900's as Mike said earlier.

Right now, when we feel great, it's when we are feeling that we are not separate. Of course until full realisation of Is-ness, we will feel varying degrees of Is-ness. Much like when a person joins a group of like minded individuals, the individuality becomes less apparent and they become "part of the group", they feel more at home and less separate.

Of course in the view of the mind, they are not one with the group as they still see themselves as separate. But in Reality they are one with everything, they just haven't realised it yet.